Gotbaum: Good-government orgs need to keep fighting under Adams and Trump

Earlier this month, Citizens Union announced that its Executive Director Betsy Gotbaum would be retiring. The former New York City public advocate spoke to City & State New York about her time at Citizens Union, her career in public service, the role of good-government organizations in these turbulent times and her plans for her future. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Let’s start with your retirement from Citizens Union. How did you come to that decision?

Well, let’s see. We have a new chairman of the board, John Avlon, whom I like very much, and he’s got a lot of energy and things that he’s doing, and I think that’s great, and I’m all for it, except I just am not into social media, and he’s going to do a lot of social media, and that’s not something I’m particularly good at or interested in. So that’s one of the reasons. The second reason is, I am 86, so I know it’s time for me to go. I’d like a little time to do some other things. And, well, I really love Citizens Union, and I think John is going to be terrific. It’s just time for me to go; 86 is old enough.

Does this mean you’re retiring for good?

Oh, no, no. I’m going to be doing a lot of other things. I just don’t know what they are right now. I probably will. I don’t know. I may. I don’t really know, but I just, I know it was time for me to go, and John should have his own person in there as the executive director. You know, I’ve been there for seven, eight years, and it’s a good time for me to do something else. I don’t know quite what it’s going to be, but there’ll definitely be something. 

What do you envision in your ideal world, what would you be doing in terms of activism at this stage of your life?

I’d like to do something to help Hakeem Jeffries, whom I like immensely. I think he’s really good, and perhaps do something to help him, help the Democratic Party, because I think it’s really important right now, and that would be an ideal situation. But I don’t know what it is yet. And also, I’d like to be able to do some things in New York. I’ve never been able to do, for example, I’m very interested in the whole issue of sex trafficking, and I know there are a lot of really good organizations in New York, and perhaps I could work at one of them. I don’t want to work full time at this point, but I could do something to be helpful there.

Like in a volunteer type of capacity?

Exactly, to help them, because to me, it’s such an important issue, and I feel so strongly about how women are exploited, and so that would be something I’d really be interested in, and I also am very serious about doing something, you know, for the Democratic Party. As you know, I was an elected official for eight years. I do things in eight-year chunks, by the way.

Is that on purpose or coincidence?

I think it’s mostly coincidental. I think by the eighth year I’m ready for a change.

Going back to Citizens Union, what is next for that organization? I know you spoke of John Avlon having plans to build up a social media presence, but are other big things in the work?

Well, I think John has some terrific ideas, and he’s very energetic, and he’s extremely knowledgeable. I’m not sure exactly what he would like to do, but I’m sure whatever he’s going to do is going to be very beneficial to the organization, because I think he’s terrific, you know, he’s got a lot of energy and a lot of great ideas, and to me that’s just so important, and I’m just, I haven’t got that kind of energy anymore, and I think that that’s pretty normal at 86 and so that’s sort of where we are. But I think the organization is extremely important right now, especially for what’s going on in the city, and I think it’s an important organization that has been around since, I don’t know, way, way, way back when Tammany Hall was reigning supreme. And I think that the organization, with John at the helm, will be able to do a whole lot of new things and new ideas and things that I don’t quite have the energy for. So that’s one of the reasons. And I don’t know what they are quite yet, but I just think, I think John will take it to big heights.

With the alleged corruption in City Hall and Donald Trump back in the White House, what do you think the modern day role of good-government organizations looks like?

It’s really important that the good-government organizations keep pounding and keep emphasizing the importance of government being transparent and government being honest and doing what it’s supposed to be doing. And in the case of Citizens Union, the Campaign Finance Board is very, very good, and … I think that they have done a very good job in kind of watching out for what’s going on. And part of the reason that you’ve got all this corruption, which is now getting acknowledged, is because the Campaign Finance Board has been doing its job. And I think the Citizens Union, we’ve been trying very much to work with them. It refused to give more public funds to Mayor Adams, and that was because of a few things that happened previously, so I think that that’s one of the most important things for organizations like Citizens Union.

Looking back, what do you think some of your biggest accomplishments were at Citizens Union?

Well, I think the fact that we have been monitoring how candidates deal with the Campaign Finance Board when people are running for office and they file for public funds, we want to make sure that they that they are doing what they’re supposed to do, that when they file they’re filing correctly, and they’re filing on time, and they’re filing honestly and openly before they get the money from the Campaign Finance Board. And I think that’s one of the things that we have done since I’ve been here. I also think that we have done a lot of interviewing of candidates and made recommendations about whom we think should win those elections. And I think that’s a really important issue, a very important issue for us to keep doing, especially since the major newspapers now don’t seem to be doing it anymore. Somebody’s got to look at these candidates and see, are they telling the truth? What are they going to do? Why? Why should we vote for them? Things like that? I think that’s one of the most important things that Citizens Union does, is monitor candidates and make recommendations on who should be supported.

What your thoughts were on Mayor Eric Adams and his legal troubles, and how do you think that will impact his chances in the Democratic primary?

Boy if I had a wand, I could answer that question. I think that, unfortunately, I feel bad for what’s happened. I don’t think that the case should have been dropped, and I think that, I think it should go to the end, and that there should be a trial. And let’s see, let’s have everything come out. Let’s find out what Adams says he did and didn’t do. And let’s hear what they’re saying he did. And now, all of a sudden, the Department of Justice is going to drop his case. What’s the quid pro quo? You know, those are all things that I think are really important that we need to be watching and see. But I don’t know what’s going to happen. I wish I did.

I also wanted to briefly talk about your career in public service. When you were New York City public advocate, was that job what you expected it to be?

The public advocate is the ombudsperson for the city of New York, and the main job is to help people who can’t help themselves. And I’ll give you a perfect example. One of the things I found when I was public advocate was that the paper, the forms that you had to fill out in order to get food stamps, was 16 pages long. Well, that was absurd. I managed after years. I mean, it was a lot of fighting, and it was, it was silly, but I managed to get the form down, I think, to three or four pages so people could get their food stamps in a better fashion. Well, I know that sounds doesn’t sound important, but it is important because nobody in the city who needs food should go hungry, and having a 16-page form is very difficult to fill out. And if it could be all, all you needed to do was fill it out to two or three pages. Why not have it that way? So that was a very important thing that I did as public advocate.

In 2015, you asked City & State why they only honor people under the age of 40, which inspired us to create our annual 50 Over 50 list. How do you feel about your very unique contribution to our magazine’s history?

Well, it’s really the first magazine, or first publication any of us involved in government, read every day, and it’s gotten better as the years go on. It’s a very good publication in terms of what we do and how we should do a better job of it. I’m very pro press. I’m very much against all these politicians who say they hate the press. There’s no way you can hate them, because they keep us honest. And that’s the key thing that we should be reading everything that you all say about whether we’re doing our jobs or whether we aren’t doing our jobs, and it’s the best way to find out. And I never had a problem with the press. They criticized me a lot, and sometimes I listened and sometimes I fought back, but I always thought City & State was fair, and if I didn’t, you can, I can assure you, I called immediately. If it was something unfair, I would call and scream and yell.

Is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you would like to add?

Well, I’ve been very, very lucky, a wonderful career. I think one of the most important things I ever did when I was at the (New York City) Police Foundation was to make sure every police officer got a bulletproof vest. That’s probably what I’m proudest of. And again, that was a very complicated and difficult thing to make happen, but it happened. And there are other things like that that I did, but to me, that was such a poignant accomplishment. And so I’m very lucky that I was able to do that.